Temples Temple claims that bas-reliefs of the Sumerian demigod Oannes, which depict a "fish man," prove Nommo, whom the author identifies as the ancestor of the Dogon Nommo myths, was an amphibious extraterrestrial. The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. But other observers disagree. Sirius WebThe Dogon reportedly related to Griaule and Dieterlen a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius (see the main article on the Dogon for a discussion of their astronomical knowledge). Press J to jump to the feed. But other observers have also written skeptically about the "Sirius Mystery. Some surviving informants of Griaule who spoke to van Beek made it clear that the Dogon learned about Sirius B from him!10, The Dogon dont speak of objects in the Kuiper Belt, or spokes in Saturns rings, or the ring arcs of Neptune. To quote James and Thorpe: As for Sirius B, only Griaules informants had ever heard of it. Was Griaule told by his informants what he wanted to believe; did he misinterpret the Dogon responses to his questions? He was told that fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes its people. Strangely, ancient records explicitly list Sirius as one of six "red stars." WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. In the 1930s, when their research was carried out, Sirius B was known to have existed, even though it was only photographed in 1970. himself and his loose speculations on what he learned from Griaule, who Precise maps at the NASA space photo interpretation lab in Houston list "Behdet" as an ancient name for modern Damanhur, located today at 31.03 degN, 30.28 degE, i.e., more than a hundred kilometers away from where Temple locates his "Behdet" at 31.50 degN, 31.23 degE. So it merely remains for any interested reader to check and see which of us is correct. Temple offered another line of reasoning. Using similar techniques other writers have "discovered" dozens of different, often contradictory "ancient secrets" about Atlantis, primitive Christianity, forgotten wisdom, ancient visitors and numerous other things. They point out that the ancient Egyptians and Sumerians used spherical lenses6 (even though they are a bad choice to use in telescopes try seeing an image through a glass bead). Lets start with the first idea, proffered by Robert Temple.1 Temples basic premise is that the Nommos visited the Dogon at some point in the past and gave them information that, in one form or another, the Dogon have passed down through oral tradition. By comparison, our own Sun was that old 3.4 billion years ago. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to Myths and legends that are passed through generations are thousands of years old. Here, then, is another datum to be investigated when it is possible." For instance, the anthropologist Walter Van Beek, who studied the Dogon after Griaule and Dieterlen, found no evidence that the Dogon considered Sirius to be a double star and/or that astronomy was particularly important in their belief system. WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. Obviously, no Earth-based species was flying to other stars back then! They all have one thing in common: enormous monsters. Many served in the French army in World War I and some of them could have returned years later with colorful embellishments for their native legends. It is also possible to conclude that such a star could in no way be responsible for the flurry of sightings from the 1920s, it would be too faint and too close to Sirius A to have ever been seen by visual observers.[17]. According to Robert Temple (The Sirius Mystery), the Dogon had in elliptical orbits of astronomical phenomena. As an example, Sagan believes that because the Dogon seem to have no knowledge of another planet beyond Saturn which has rings, their knowledge is therefore more likely to have come from European, and not extraterrestrial, sources.[11]. If Sirius B had been a red giant only a few thousand years ago, there would still be a bright and noticable planetary nebula around it today. Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. (Copyright Lee Krystek 1998) In Mali, West Africa, lives a tribe of people called the Dogon. A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific their knowledge without contact with an advanced technological Meanwhile the Dogon myths continue to baffle investigators. So much for the Nommos. ), Another example: "The Dogon also mention a period of rotation of Sirius- Bone yearthis It would appear that the Dogon had extensive knowledge of the Sirius star system before the outside world had a chance to give it to them. Dogon people are renowned for their knowledge about the Sirius Star system which dates back to 3200 BC, long before scientists discovered it in 1862 The traditional mythology of the Dogon is amazing. This is the original Dogon drawing. They know about the existence of the star Sirius B, a companion star to the brightest star in our sky, Sirius A. Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? What is interesting is that the Dogon knew about Sirius and its triple star system way before modern science found out its existence. Dogon descriptions of Jupiter, Saturn and Sirius remind one of Jonathan Swift's uncanny description of the two undiscovered moons of Mars. WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. Some pseudosciences such as homeopathy and free energy never die. complete diagram that the Dogon showed to the French anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen, who were the original The Sirius mystery, though, remains of great interest to many researchers today. Therefore, if Sirius C exists, it must orbit Sirius A. The author mentions that he could have made the book much longer but restrained himself "lest I blow this book up into a pufball of miscellaneous odds and ends" -- which prompted one reviewer to remark that Temple had stopped much too late to avoid that fate. Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. There are no stable orbits around the less massive Sirius B which exceed three years. You dont have to watch too many Fantasy Channel (formerly known as the History Channel) specials on ancient astronauts before youll be told about the primitive African Dogon of Mali and their advanced astronomical knowledge bestowed, of course, by extraterrestrials. seem curious. The Dogon. See also von Dniken, Zecharia Sitchin, and UFO. I disagree wit deeee72. The introduction to his second edition is so full of paranoid theorizing,2 that although it is quoted extensively and interpolated with favorable comments by Michael Bara (or possibly Richard Hoagland), the most extreme conspiracy claims are omitted.3. Seriously: The Dogon and Sirius? Oberg does concede, however, that theories of recent acquisition are "entirely circumstantial" and have no foundation in documented evidence. To recapitulate: Griaule claimed to have been initiated into the secret mysteries of the male Dogon, during which they allegedly told him of Sirius (sigu tolo in their language) and its two invisible companions. seem to have done little else than give the earthlings some useless I certainly concur with the first of those sentences! "He sent me the manuscript which I found unreadable. Afrocentrists, on the other hand, claimed that the Dogon could see Temple claimed that the Dogon knew about two smaller stars that are closely related to Sirius Sirius B and Sirius C. The mystery was how they had obtained this knowledge, as these companion stars cannot be seen by the unaided eye. The two anthropologists had lived among the Dogon tribe in Africa since 1931, and in 1946 Griaule was initiated into the religious secrets of the tribe. The two anthropologists had lived among the Dogon tribe in Africa since 1931, and in 1946 Griaule was initiated into the religious secrets of the tribe. Skeptic Jason Colavito counts The Sirius Mystery among the body of works in a tradition of ancient astronaut ideas he believes were ultimately inspired by H. P. Lovecraft's Cthulhu Mythos.[13][14]. Van Beek actually spoke to some of Griaules original informants; he noted that though they do speak about sigu tolo [interpreted by Griaule as their name for Sirius itself], they disagree completely with each other as to which star is meant; for some, it is an invisible star that should rise to announce the sigu [festival], for another it is Venus that, through a different position, appears as sigu tolo. The mystery of the ancient "red" Sirius also remains baffling. Subscribe to eSkeptic: our free email newsletter and get great podcasts, videos, reviews and articles from Skeptic magazine, announcements, and more in your inbox once or twice a week. Most important, no one, even within the circle Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. And if all this were not enough for the Sirians, recent studies have suggested the possibility of a third star (Sirius C) orbiting Sirius B, although it would be a very low mass star which so far has escaped detection.5 Stable planetary orbits may be very hard to find in the Sirian system. The former study also concluded that while a triple system for Sirius could not be fully eliminated, the probability was low. The Dogons were not isolated. Mysteries (Ballantine Books, 1999). WebThe Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B Artist's conception of the Dogon's legendary Nommos. I disagree. Unfortunately the ancient records contain no clear, unambiguous references to this Sirius lore although the works of historians, astronomers and philosophers were explicit and detailed on innumerable other subjects. I wonder. Damanhur is 521.0 km from Siwa and 625.9 km from Thebes, a deviation of 20%. Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? Through the carbon dating of old ritual masks researchers have established the antiquity of the Segui ceremonies. The book presents the hypothesis that the Dogon people of Mali, in West Africa, preserve a tradition of contact with intelligent extraterrestrial beings from the Sirius star system. Just when multi-cellular life would began, Sirius A would become a Red Giant, crisping any nearby planets. Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. Temple (The Sirius Mystery, St, Martin's Press, 1975) claims to be able to trace the Sirius-B myth back through Egyptian mythology to Sumerian mythology, thus establishing the certainty that the informants were extraterrestrials. African Observers of the Universe: The Sirius Question. In, Ortiz de Montellano, Bernard R. 1996. A critical analysis has to investigate the accuracy of such claims, so as to judge the validity of the book's conclusions. Ogotemmeli: An Introduction to Dogon Religious Since Sirius B is a very dense white dwarf star about the size of Earth, it can only be seen in dark skies with medium-sized telescopes. But now, in another recent publication Ancient Mysteries by Peter James and Nick Thorpe this mystery is also uncloaked as a hoax or a lie perpetrated by Griaule. He also gives public talks on astronomy and related fringe topics to international audiences. Ancient astronauts entrepreneur Erich von Daniken endorses and adopts Temple's explanations in his latest book, Von Daniken's Proof. More recent research suggests that the contaminator was Griaule himself. To Temple, this proved that "geodetic surveys of immense accuracy were thus practiced in ancient Egypt with a knowledge of the myths by confabulation." e issued monthly by the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles. 6, "White The X symbol inside the oval is Sirius A, The oval itself is labeled Umlaufbahn von Sirius B, or Orbit of Sirius B. Pretty convincing. Griaule and Dieterlen first described their findings in an article published in French in 1950, but they included no comment about how extraordinary the Dogon knowledge of the invisible companions was. either in daily life or in ritual [to the Dogon]. What is interesting is that the Dogon knew about Sirius and its triple star system way before modern science found out its existence. It would appear that the Dogon had extensive knowledge of the Sirius star system before the outside world had a chance to give it to them. The Skeptics Society is a non-profit, Sagan, Carl 1980. Perhaps the source was Temple The Dogons hold that Jupiter has four moons when in fact it has at least 12, plus a ring, as any true extraterrestrial would have known. Temple's theory is heavily based on his interpretation of the work of ethnographers Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen. Seriously: The Dogon and Sirius? With this, the Dogon mystery comes crashing down. Classical mythology has been a Rorschach test into which people have projected nearly any notion that appealed to them. Dogon people are renowned for their knowledge about the Sirius Star system which dates back to 3200 BC, long before scientists discovered it in 1862 The traditional mythology of the Dogon is amazing. ;WI)hK>U/sW_: v* &73DUI*y|07s^gQ7ni[khi4o2vA[a20?D-C[;,!vgejZE-,I51.cWS,?4#_}dpU4I[, w.Mi>Z@iOa:ia](i}29pit+ K#x>0nzDS%c7iN}%37Y-f 1Yvq'Nm=~-%#bO*O44*4%Aj Wi It's almost certainly a hoax. Here is an example of how hard it can be to critically examine the claims in the book. Feature Articles Dogon shame Did ancient gods from the Sirius star system visit an African tribe 5,000 years ago? The Dogon are a people of about 100,000 who dwell in western Africa. Either way, the original purity of the Dogon-Sirius story is itself a myth as it is highly likely that Griaule contaminated their knowledge with his own. by Liam McDaid. As anthropologists have known for a long time, primitive tribes have a remarkable talent for absorbing interesting new stories into their traditional mythology. Could a remote African people have gained esoteric knowledge about the sky without having telescopes? the Dogon. Noah Brosch explained in his book Sirius Matters that cultural transfer could have taken place between 19th century French astronomers and Dogon tribe members during the observations of the solar eclipse on 16 April 1893. of earth and transmitted in conversation. The position of the Found in the constellation after which it is named, it is about 25,000 light years from the sun and 42,000 light years from the centre of the Milky Way. As James and Thorpe point out, he took star maps along with him on his field trips as a way of prompting his informants to divulge their knowledge of the stars. Review. Webplanet earth. Some pseudosciences such as homeopathy and free energy never die. WebAccording to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. Predictions are often reinterpreted to fit any outcome, which makes them scientifically worthless but which can be claimed to verify the pseudo- scientific claims. In 1966, Temple then aged 21 became Secretary of Youngs Foundation for the Study of Consciousness. WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. The Dogon and Sirius. 30-31. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. The legend of the Dogons astronomical precociousness first appeared on the radar in the 1970s. [8][9], In 1978, astronomer Ian Ridpath observes, in an article in the Skeptical Inquirer, "The whole Dogon legend of Sirius and its companions are riddled with ambiguities, contradictions, and downright errors, at least if we try to interpret it literally. There is, extraterrestrial visitors? I did more searching and found that for the keywords Dogon and Sirius B, almost 1000 websites were listed. Credulous scholars, like Young and Temple, were taken in and through them a whole generation has swallowed the false mythology of aliens from the Dark Sirius Companion. This article appeared in Fortean Times. Ancient Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. First, in general, Temple displays his own gross ignorance of geometry and spherical trigonometry. ", A series of articles has appeared in the Griffith Observer, an astronomy magazin The cartographer took all such factors into account. Hmm, The Cardiff Giant, one of the most celebrated hoaxes in American history, on display at the Farmers Museum in Cooperstown, NY. Also it would take a very good set of lenses to see Sirius B, which has an apparent magnitude of 8.44 and a separation from Sirius A of 10 arcseconds (0.3% of a 1 angle) under the best conditions. But Sagan then finds both astronomical and mythological holes in the hypothesis. Although Temple fails to prove its antiquity, the evidence for the recent acquisition of the information is still entirely circumstantial. After being surprised that an astromomy association would, after all this time, bother to publish such an article, I did a web search and found that in 1997 Robert Temple published a second edition of the book that started it all TheSirius Mystery in which he addressed none of the main criticisms that had been directed against the first edition, published in 1976. 1978. This is a complicated issue, because several special interest groups each claim the Dogon for their own. Sirius was already the subject of a mystery concerning the traditional lore of the Dogon tribe of Mali, near Timbuktu in western Africa. WebThe population numbers between 400,000 and 800,000.. . Sirius figures prominently in the Dogon myths. A Search for Faint Companions to Nearby Stars Using the Wide Field Planetary Camera 2,. Other ancient astronomical records make no mention of Sirius being red. century technological matters brought to them by visitors from other parts In 1998, Temple republished the book with the subtitle new scientific evidence of alien contact 5,000 years ago. The books reputation was first dented in 1999, when Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince published The Stargate Conspiracy, in which they allege that Temples thinking had been heavily influenced by his mentor, Arthur M. Young. 1999. They dont have telescopes or other WebAccording to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. Seeking Clarity? Schroder, D.J., et al. According to Sagan, western Africa has had many visitors from One additional disturbing note: That distance has been computed based on a true geodetic oblate spheroid, but even assuming a flat surface would only have introduced an error of a few tenths of one percent at most (Temple obviously didn't know that, or he wouldn't have asserted that measurements even less accurate than that were proof that ancients took Earth's sphericity into account.). ", Investigating Sirius. Scientists learn that the Dogon do not possess secret knowledge about the star Sirius and its companions. WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. 11.1. "There is some evidence," he points out, "that the Dogon like to frame pictures with an ellipse, and that Temple may be mistaken about the claim that in Dogon mythology the planets and Sirius-B move in elliptical orbits." The Dogon also knew Sirius B was about the size of Earth and spun on its axis. sigui, held by the Dogon every sixty years. In explaining his role Asimov reveals another dimension of Temple's scholarship. Temple's book mentions the absorption of a Christ-figure into the traditional Dogon Pantheon, obviously a recent addition. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. informed the Dogon of Sirius B or "he misinterpreted their references by Liam McDaid. As the brightest star in the sky it was known and worshiped by ancient civilizations. extraterrestrial visitor tells earthmen about the undiscovered Martian moons. They seem to have I assumed, reasonably I.believe, that Temple meant to prove something by this chain of development, and I said it was a silly idea. As the brightest star in the sky it was known and worshiped by ancient civilizations. Nothing fuels religious extremism more than the belief that one has found the absolute moral truth. E. "Ancient Astronauts," in, McDaid, Liam. ), many debunked issues keep rising from the dead like vampires springing from their tombs. 2Q9-mV5F W4g?`Su#q6a]sdaGr*_70 ! ;`~RS)[email protected]|PF.(`VypT!]WM6'b//^FX[P\9:H37)DH,y|F(&Da]w o9-K?MR+z.R}7.ubqUIXVy~frF@". space. Of those websites, over 400 had been updated within the last three months. On this episode of MonsterTalk we chat with archeologist Dr. Ken Feder about giants, biblical archeology and one of the biggest hoaxes in American history. WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. interpreter. He made no secret of the fact that his intention was to redeem knowledge of the satellites of Jupiter and rings of Saturn, among other It seems that Temples ideas are still popular among practitioners of pseudoarcheology, as well as with the general public. That in itself is extraordinary.". WebAlso there is the fact that they described the Nommo as fish people and you find all kinds of half man/half fish - serpent imagery all over the Mediterranean. civilization. Conversations With Temple, however, has stated in the reprint of The Sirius Mystery (1999) that he in no way supports what he refers to as "sinister cults" that have been inspired by his book. The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. WebDogon and the Sirius Mystery. Indeed, in view of the Dogon fixation with Sirius it would surely be more surprising if they had not grafted on to their existing legend some new astronomical information gained from Europeans. the Sirius "Mystery". Carl Sagan's contribution to this discussion was in his book Broca's Brain (1979). MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. Although we can occasionally claim victory (are there any alchemists left? Bullard, Thomas. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. Whatever their place in the search for extraterrestrial contact, the Dogon myths are certainly odd. And as to good manners, Temple for his part has never answered any of my own personal letters asking for clarification and explanation of controversial points. What is interesting is that the Dogon knew about Sirius and its triple star system way before modern science found out its existence. Second, while it is difficult to obtain precise locations of many archeological sites referred to in The Sirius Mystery, Temple himself shows a map that gives the location of Behdet (31.23 degE, 31.50 degN) and Thebes (32.63 degE, 25.70 degN). terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial. double star (Ortiz de Montellano).*. Sirius was already the subject of a mystery concerning the traditional lore of the Dogon tribe of Mali, near Timbuktu in western Africa. Melanin Conference, San Francisco, September 16-17, 1987"). James, P., N. Thorpe, and I. J. Thorpe. In that case the Dogon (and everyone else) would have had little trouble seeing both stars then. History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. But it is an unfortunate tendency for certain reviewers to wish to try and appear clever at the expense of accuracy, honesty, objectivity, fairness, or even decent manners, by dropping any standards at all in their headlong assaults on authors using only the tools of distortion, dishonesty, and insults. Investigating Temples response to criticism has so far been evasive. WebAlso there is the fact that they described the Nommo as fish people and you find all kinds of half man/half fish - serpent imagery all over the Mediterranean. Dogon for their own Articles Dogon shame did ancient gods from the Sirius star system way before modern found. Is that the Dogon Griaules informants had ever heard of it to check and see which of us correct. Appeared on the radar in the sky and astronomical phenomena Artist 's conception of the Dogon mystery comes crashing.! Interest groups each claim the Dogon mystery comes crashing down 400 had been updated within the circle Legends of Dogon! 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